MINUTES

STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

COUNTY OF HENDERSON JANUARY 14, 2004

The Henderson County Board of Commissioners met for a special called meeting at 5:00 p.m. in the Commissioners' Conference Room of the Henderson County Office Building at 100 North King Street, Hendersonville, North Carolina.

Those present were: Chairman Grady Hawkins, Vice-Chairman Larry Young, Commissioner Bill Moyer, Commissioner Charlie Messer, Commissioner Shannon Baldwin, County Manager David E. Nicholson, County Attorney Angela S. Beeker, Planning Director Karen C. Smith, County Engineer Gary Tweed and Clerk to the Board Elizabeth W. Corn.

QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEEDING

Chairman Hawkins called the meeting to order. He explained that “a Quasi-judicial proceeding, much like a court proceeding, is a proceeding in which one's individual's rights are determined. The proceedings will be conducted under the Henderson County Board of Commissioners Rules of Procedure for Quasi-judicial Proceedings. Only persons who can demonstrate that they will be affected by the outcome of the decision are allowed to participate in the proceeding. Uh, before we get started, uh, I need to, uh, query the Board and see if, uh, really a couple things. First of all, uh, I’d like to be sure everybody has a current materials package. Uh, we had an addition, uh, that came in on the 12^th of January, uh, so you might just check to be sure everybody has that with them.”

Commissioner Young – “Dated January 14^th?”

Commissioner Moyer – “14^th?”

Chairman Hawkins – “No, I think it was the 12^th. What it was, was, uh, additional four”

Commissioner Moyer – “and five”

Chairman Hawkins – “four and five”

Commissioner Moyer – “five”

Chairman Hawkins – “So you might, uh, be sure you have those. If not, uh, Mrs. Corn will”

Commissioner Moyer – “I have that, but that’s the last I have.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, that, that was the only one I received, is the”

Commissioner Moyer – “Well you know the, the notice, uh, the agenda says January 14^th Larry, so maybe that’s”

Commissioner Young – “Uh huh.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Has, has everyone got the revised material? Okay. Uh, the other thing I’d like to query the Board, and see if anyone has, uh, any conflict of interest or, uh, prior information that, uh, that they need to disclose to the Board?”

Commissioner Baldwin – “I had a, a uh, meeting with Mr. Campano at the end of, of last year about, uh, potential employment with his company and, uh, an offer was not extended although it was left open. So I think I would like to ask the Board to recuse me from, from participating in this hearing.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Mrs. Beeker do you have a recommendation for the Board?”

Angela Beeker – “It would be my recommendation that the Board recuse him as requested.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I move then that we recuse, uh, uh, Commissioner Baldwin. Any discussion on that motion? All those in favor say aye.”

All Commissioners stated aye.

Chairman Hawkins – “Opposed? Okay uh, Mr. Baldwin you are excused. You may remain with us or, uh, leave. It’s your pleasure but you won’t be a part of the proceedings.”

Commissioner Baldwin – “Think I’ll let you have it.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you.”

Commissioner Baldwin – “Thank you.”

Commissioner Baldwin left at this point in the meeting.

Chairman Hawkins – “Let me just briefly give you an overview of the uh procedure. All persons who speak and participants, including any witnesses that will be called, will be placed under oath. The Board will ask the petitioner or the petitioner's attorney what evidence the petitioner wishes to present in support of the request. After the petitioner is finished, anyone else who has expressed a desire to be a party and who the Board has recognized as a party would then be allowed to present their evidence. All parties will be given opportunity to ask questions of all witnesses testifying in this proceeding. The Board will give an opportunity to ask questions also. After the evidence is presented the Board will discuss the issues raised and will make a decision. The Board's decision must be made in writing within 45 days of the hearing. Uh, at this time, uh, the Board acknowledges the petitioner, Gaston Campano, and the Planning Staff as a parties to the proceeding. Are there any other persons present who can demonstrate that they will be affected by the outcome of the proceedings and who wish to be a party to the proceedings? If uh, uh, if ya’ll would, the ones that raised your hand, if you’d just come on up and, uh, and advise the Board of uh, of why you are a part of the proceedings, uh, then the Board will rule on you one at a time, uh. And then after that we’ll swear you in.”

Jack Tate – “Um, my name is Jack Tate. I’m an attorney for the petitioner, but I also wear another hat in this matter and that is that I happen to have been. This prop, the property that is uh, seeking the uh, the application is connection with some property that uh, is owned by multiple, uh, undivided interest, um, it’s part of a special proceedings petition and I, um, as well as two other attorneys in, in the area have been appointed Commissioners to sell that property, um, and that sale is pending the decision of this Board. Um, we commonly call the property the Lanning property, but I will, can tell you the, I have a list of all the names of the people affected if you want um, but it’s about 40 or 50 I think at least, people who own an undivided interest.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We have a letter from you designating, uh, uh Gaston Campano as, as your, uh, as your representative so I guess I’m a little”

Jack Tate – “Well as the representative of the owners and myself as Commissioner in, in sense yes for purposes of this application that’s correct.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Uh, Mrs. Beeker do you have any light to shed on that, I, I hadn’t anticipated I guess that, uh, Mr. Tate would want to be a part of the hearing also after designating, uh”

Angela Beeker – “Are, are you…”

Jack Tate – “I’m really here more, I’m really here more just as a witness and a Commissioner. Not like you are Commissioners, but as a Commissioner appointed by the court to sell it. And answer questions and just make you aware of the interest in part that the people who are affected on that side of it who are numerous.”

Unknown – “Can I speak here or”

Angela Beeker – “Do, do you”

Chairman Hawkins – “In just a minute.”

Unknown – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “And, and that, and Jack is that in, uh, other, other lands other than, that we’re looking at…”

Jack Tate – “No that’s the, the tract that, that we’re looking at…”

Chairman Hawkins – “That we are looking at.”

Jack Tate – “Right. Yeah. Actually that we are looking at now. So that the sale is dependent upon the outcome of this hearing.”

Angela Beeker – “The, um, petitioners, are they the, the potential, the potential buyer?”

Jack Tate – “The petitioner is the potential buyer.”

Angela Beeker – “Okay, and so the, the closing of that sale is contingent on the outcome of this proceeding is that what you’re saying?”

Jack Tate – “Yes, that’s correct.”

Angela Beeker – “Um, do you feel that you need to be a party or do you feel that just being a witness.”

Jack Tate – “I don’t, I don’t really feel that I need to be a party, no.”

Angela Beeker – “Okay.”

Jack Tate – “I’m here to be a witness and answer any questions”

Angela Beeker – “Okay”

Jack Tate – “that the Commissioners have. And, and to, to, uh, um, make, uh, you aware of any information that may come from that side because”

Angela Beeker – “Right”

Jack Tate – “these gentlemen may not be fully aware of the, the procedural background of the matter.”

Angela Beeker – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I, I believe that any, anybody that’s a party can call a witness, and”

Jack Tate – “Yeah. I don’t intend to call any witnesses.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay.”

Angela Beeker – “That’s correct. Do you anticipate being called?”

Jack Tate – “Um. I don’t anticipate being called”

Angela Beeker – “Unless the Board had some questions for you.”

Jack Tate – “right, unless you have questions”

Angela Beeker – “Okay.”

Jack Tate – “unless the Board calls me and asks me questions.”

Angela Beeker – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “So he wouldn’t necessarily need to be a party...”

Angela Beeker – “No sir he would just need to be sworn in as a witness.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. So when we swear in witnesses Jack if you’d just come up. Mr. Campano.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, I don’t know if I have to say that I’ll be a party, I guess I’m already one based on…”

Chairman Hawkins – “You’re already recognized as a.”

Luther Smith – “My name is Luther Smith, I’m a planner, and our firm is, uh, doing the planning work on the project and we’re here to appraise the Commissioners on what, what we have put together.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Will you be called as a witness Luther from, by Mr. Campano, is that.”

Luther Smith – “Uh, yeah, I, I guess.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Then we’ll, we’ll swear you in when the witnesses…”

Luther Smith – “Okay.”

Erica McArthur Allison – “I’m Erica McArthur Allison and I work for Glade, and I could be a potential witness so, might as well get sworn in.”

Edmundo Hernandez – “Uh, my name is Edmundo Hernandez. I … Glade Holdings also.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, so you might be a witness also.”

Edmundo Hernandez – “Yeah.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Alright. And you sir.”

Kenny Long – “Uh, my name is Kenny Long, I live on Normandy Lane which is, uh, right, uh, off of Angel Lane. I’m just down stream from this project. And I’m interested in, uh, runoff water and the sewage and such.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Are you adjacent, actually adjacent to the property or just in close proximity?”

Kenny Long – “100 yards.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Um, I, I would think he would be allowed to be a party to the hearing.”

Angela Beeker – “It’s up to the discretion of the Board.”

Chairman Hawkins – “With that. Does any, anybody have”

Commissioner Young – “I don’t have a problem with that.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, do we need to vote on that? Okay, we’ll, we’ll list you as a party also, uh, Mr. Long. Yes sir.”

Skip Brewer – “My name is Skip Brewer and I live in the, a subdivision that abuts the petitioners property.”

Chairman Hawkins – “So you abut the property already Mr. Brewer?”

Skip Brewer – “Yes sir.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Uh, I think you would be a party too. Does anybody have any objection to that? Okay, we’ll, we’ll list you Mr. Brewer as a party also.”

Skip Brewer – “Thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes mam.”

Vickie Edmonds – “My name is Vickie Edmonds and I, uh, live in Beth Eden, and my property abuts this property.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Does your property abut it or”

Vickie Edmonds – “Yes it does.”

Chairman Hawkins – “is in close proximity to it.”

Vickie Edmonds – “Yes. It abuts it.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We’ll, we’ll, uh, does the Board have any objection to…”

Commissioner Messer – “What was the name again?”

Vickie Edmonds – “Legal name’s Valorie but I go by Vickie Edmonds. Edmonds.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Anybody have any problem with listing her as a party? Okay we’ll list you as a party.”

Vickie Edmonds – “Okay, thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes mam.”

Donna Riley – “Uh, yes, my name is Donna Riley and I own the apartments directly across the street and I also own the property, two lots on Patty’s Chapel Road.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Does anybody have any objections to, uh, Ms. Riley being a party? We’ll list you as a party also. Yes sir.”

Bruce Thompson – “My name is Bruce Thompson and, uh, we own property in, on Caleb Drive which is the proximity of the, uh, development.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Anybody have any objections to listing Mr. Thomason, uh, Thompson, I’m sorry, as a party? We’ll list you Mr. Thompson.”

Jane Berry – “My name is Jane Berry and I own property on, Jane Berry, own property on Patty’s Chapel and it crosses over to Howard Gap, uh, I’m representing Berry Boys Inc. and my private property that touches up against that land.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any objections to Ms. Berry being a party to the hearing? Okay we’ll list you Ms. Berry.”

Jane Berry – “Okay.”

Kathy Cheekos – “My name is Kathy Cheekos and I live on Warbler Drive, and my property abuts this development.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any objections to Ms. Cheekos being listed? Okay we’ll list you as a party Ms. Cheekos.”

Ron Raiola – “I’m uh, Ron Raiola, and I own property on Caleb, which is in close proximity to this proposed development. It’s in the same, um, development, Beth Eden.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Alright. Anybody have any objections to, um, Mr. Raiola. Okay, we’ll list you sir. Yes sir.”

Jeff Kluttz – “My name is Jeff Kluttz. I too live in that Beth Eden development, on Caleb Drive.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any objection to Mr. Kluttz being a party?”

Elizabeth Corn – “What’s your last name?”

Jeff Kluttz – “Kluttz. K-L-U-T-T-Z.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes sir.”

Steven Moore – “My name is Steven Moore. I own lot 14 in Beth Eden Subdivision which is adjacent to the proposed development.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any objection to Mr. Moore being a party? Okay we’ll list you as a party Mr. Moore.”

Angela Beeker – “Mr. Chairman I’d also ask the petitioner if they have any objection to the other people being a, a party.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Uh, Mr. Campano do you have any objection to the uh, parties we’ve identified.”

Gaston Campano – “No, we do not.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. Now we’ve got to get everybody’s name and address and swear you in. So if, uh, if you would just, uh, kinda form a line here with the, the Clerk to the Board so she can get your name and address and then we’ll swear you in and we’ll be good to go.”

Angela Beeker – “…parties and wit, anyone who’s gonna be speaking needs to be sworn in.”

Unidentified speaker from the back of the room…

Angela Beeker – “You would need to be sworn in as a party.”

Elizabeth Corn – “If you could just step over here we’ll do it all, we’ll do everybody together.”

Unidentified – “Everybody at once.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Yeah.”

Non-pertinent conversation amongst the Board and staff while parties were signing in. Conversation was unintelligible.

Chairman Hawkins – “We may have to swear you in in shifts.”

Angela Beeker – “Yeah, I think we will.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Is everybody signed in? If I could get just maybe four or five of you over with Mrs. Corn to get sworn in, and then we’ll get then, uh, remaining five or six. So, uh, uh, just you folks that are there if you would get with Mrs. Corn to be sworn.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Put your left hand on the bible, raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you shall give to the Board of County Commissioners shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?”

In unison – “I do.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. And if the rest of you that, uh, need to be sworn in would come on up we’ll, uh, we’ll finish the shift.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Left hand on the bible, raise your right hand.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Second shift was bigger than the first.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you shall give to the Board of County Commissioners shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?”

In unison – “I do.”

Elizabeth Corn – “Thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you for your patience and we’ll go ahead now and begin with the uh, proceedings of evidence. And, uh, staff if you want to begin with your overview.”

Karen Smith – “Good afternoon. Can everybody hear me? I wasn’t sure if this mic was. Okay? Great. Um, on the, uh, document camera right now, on the television screen is a, uh, picture or a map showing the vicinity, it’s actually attachment six in your original agenda packet. I’ll be referring to that in a few moments. Uh, as Mr. Hawkins stated on December 8^th, 2003 Mr. Luther Smith on behalf of Glade Land Fund, LLC., submitted to the Henderson County Planning Department application materials seeking a development vested right under Chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code for a planning residential development to be known as Fox Glen. Glade Land Fund, LLC., also known as the applicant, has requested that the vested right be valid for a period of five years. The original application materials are attachments one through five in the public hearing packet that you received earlier this week. It’s the one with the gray box on top for those of you who have the information. The application materials consisted of a cover letter from Luther Smith, the application form, an appointment of agent form, a written project summary and a research master plan. On January 12, 2004 Mr. Smith submitted a revised research master plan, full size and reduced copies, and a revised written project summary along with a cover memo all of which were dated January 12, 2004. These items were also distributed to the Board prior to today’s meeting and from your discussion earlier, appears you all have that. Uh, from this point on any time I refer to the research master plan, or to the written project summary or project summary, I’m referring to the application materials submitted on January 12^th. Okay? While I am gonna be presenting actual, more testimony later in the hearing I wanted to go ahead and enter into both of those packets of information as evidence, uh, this evening. Uh, and the other parties to the proceeding have those, uh, elements as well. To get back to the project, um, and you’ll, I’m sure hear more detail about this from the applicant in a little while. Fox Glen is proposed to be located at 145 Patty’s Chapel Road on property further identified by Henderson County parcel identification number 00965292746155. I’ll be referring to it as the subject property, the project, and other things through the hearing. Uh, please note that the research master plan identifies the parcel identification number for the subject property as, um, changed the 9652 to 9632, um, and it should be 9652. Subject property fronts on both Patty Chapel Road and Howard Gap Road, and is situated across Howard Gap Road from Fletcher Elementary School. Henderson County tax records show the owners of the subject property to be William A. and Eula, excuse me. William A. Lanning and Eula Mae Lanning. However, according to the application materials, as you’ve heard already, uh, Johnny Tate Jr. is a court appointed Commissioner in a matter related to the subject property and he has provided permission for Gaston Campano, Glade Land Fund, LLC to act as the agent in matters before the Board regarding this property. And you have a copy of that Appoint of Agent form as Attachment 3.

Probably be better for you to refer to the plan in your packets or on the easel at this point. Um, Attachment 5 in your packet is the, uh, research master plan for the project. According to the application materials the applicant intends to construct 198 housing units of various types on approximately 47 acres that comprise the subject property. Proposed units include 100 apartments, 22 town homes, 40 single-family villa homes and 36 single family cottage homes. Plans also call for a building to contain a small community store, without gas pumps, uh, and management office near the Howard Gap Road entrance to the project adjacent to the proposed apartments. The application materials also propose a community recreation center, a pool, a playground area, open space and sidewalk connections to Howard Gap Road and Fletcher Elementary School.

I put up on the screen Attachment 7 which is the current zoning map for the subject area. The subject property is currently designated open use or OU zoning under the Henderson County Zoning Ordinance. Uh, that’s the white area on the zoning map. Therefore no zoning permits are needed at this time from Henderson County to construct any of the elements proposed for Fox Glen. The proposed project adjoins a county R-20 district to the northeast, and that’s the yellow area on Attachment 7, north of the hatched property, which is the subject property. It’s also close to a rural conservation or RC zoning district which is to the northeast and east and that’s the sort of orangy brown on the map.

Uh, I’ve now put on the screen Attachment 8 which is the US 25 North, uh, Study area map, for a land use study, that, uh, is currently going on by the county. Uh, we are working on a land use and zoning, uh, study of this Highway 25 North area that could ultimately result in zoning changes for the subject property and the subject, uh, area. The property is included in the subject, uh, area boundary and I’ll just point to that briefly on the map. It is my understanding the applicant is requesting the vested right, uh, in order to have the ability to complete the project according to the application materials as revised in the event that the zoning of the subject property changes in the future. I wanted to note that, uh, the granting of a development vested right under Chapter 189, or the Vested Rights Ordinance does not enable the applicant to avoid other review and permitting processes. For example, regardless of whether the Board of Commissioners decides to grant the vested right, uh, the applicant would still have to comply with the subdivision, Henderson County Subdivision Ordinance, for example for those portions of the property that are subject to that ordinance.

Wanted to go over just briefly, um, more so probably for the people in the audience, the, um, Vested Rights Ordinance a little bit. Um, as I said Chapter 189 is the Vested Rights Ordinance, that’s Chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code, and it implements the provisions of North Carolina General Statute 153A-344.1 which gives land owners the ability to establish vested rights for development projects through the approval or conditional approval of a site specific development plan. Generally the establishment of a development vested right allows a land owner, or his or her successors in ownership, to proceed with specific development plans regardless of whether there is a change in zoning. Uh, and I’ve included copies of the Vested Rights Ordinance and that General Statute as Attachments 9 and 10 in the original hearing packet. In order to establish a vested right under Chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code, a property owner, or his or her representative, must submit an application, a fee and a site specific development plan to the Planning Department. The Board of Commissioners must hold a public hearing within 45 days of submission of the vested rights application, and so the scheduling of the public hearing for today fulfills such a requirement. Uh, according to chapter 189, and, uh, Chairman Hawkins this is probably going to contradict what you said earlier, at, within 30 days after completion of the public hearing the Board would have to approve, conditionally approve or deny a development vested right based on the need to protect public health, safety and welfare. And I think under your rules of procedure for quasi-judicial proceedings is, they, you also have 45 days from the date of the hearing to issue a written decision. Is that?”

Angela Beeker – “The day it’s concluded.”

Karen Smith – “Right. Uh, a vested right approved by the Board under Chapter 189 is valid for two years unless terminated or otherwise provided, and may be granted by the Board for up to five years depending on the nature of the development project. Uh, I wanted to state for the record that the public hearing, uh, tonight’s public hearing has been advertised in accordance with Chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code and the Board of Commissioner’s Rules of Procedure for quasi-judicial proceedings, or procedures. Notices of the hearing were published as legal advertisements in the Hendersonville Times-News on December 31^st, 2003 and January 3^rd, 7^th and 10^th of 2004 as required by Chapter 189. On December 23^rd 2003 the Planning Department sent notice of the public hearing via certified mail to the applicant as required by the Board’s Rules of Procedure for quasi-judicial proceedings. And while no other mail notice is required, on December 23^rd, 2003 the Planning Department also sent notices via certified mail to the owners of property within 300 feet of the subject property. And you’ve got copies of those public hearing notices as Attachments 11 through 13 in the original public hearing packet. Um, in preparation for today’s hearing, um, I had also sent out the application materials from, uh, two various agencies most of which are usually involved in reviews of subdivisions and manufactured home park plans, and you have a list of those agencies, um, shown on Attachment 14 of the public hearing packet. Um, comments I’ve previously received were included in that original public hearing packet, um, however late this afternoon I did receive some comments from Dr. Tom Burnham, the Superintendent of Henderson County Schools, that he wanted included for the record if there were no objections and wanted to see if the Board wanted me to give you that, uh, letter at this point.”

Chairman Hawkins – “If you would.”

Karen Smith – “Okay, and I’ll give it to the parties as well.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you.”

Karen Smith – “Okay. And due to the quasi-jud, quasi-judicial nature of the hearing I’ll have other comments in evidence, uh, relevant to the review of the vested rights application later on after the applicant and, and the other parties go or I can wait till the end. Thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Does the, uh, uh, Board have any questions for Karen at this time? Uh, does any of the, uh, additional parties have questions, not, you don’t need to make a statement at this time, you’ll get a chance to do that in a few minutes, but just any questions from what’s been presented? Yes sir would you take the stand up here if you have a question for, uh, uh, Karen.”

Unknown – “Uh, just a question of procedure, um, has anyone contacted, uh, the principal of the school across the street?”

Chairman Hawkins – “Mr., uh, Tom Burnham, the Superintendent of Education, has responded to, uh, the school’s input on this.”

Unknown – “Right. His in, his input or the principal’s input….That says his so.”

Chairman Hawkins – “He speaks for the principal.”

Unknown – “Yeah, apparently, thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I’m sure he’s had a conversation with them. Any, any other questions? Okay, uh, petitioners evidence, uh, Mr. Campano are you gonna present that?”

Gaston Campano – “Gaston Campano. What I’d like to do, if, uh, is, is ask Luther to come in and first present, uh, the site itself and the details about the site planning, uh, and then I would like to come right after him and tell you a little bit about you know how we got there and where we are today.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Mr. Smith.”

Luther Smith – “Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, my name is Luther Smith, I’m a planner in Hendersonville. Uh, our office was retained by Glade, um, Holdings, Glade Property Limited, uh, to do the planning, uh, for the Fox Glen project. So if I may I’ll just briefly sort of run through, you do have a copy of the project summary that, uh, our office put together. I’ll try and address the basic, uh, elements of the project and then be happy to answer any specifics with regards to planning and those elements of the project.”

Angela Beeker – “Mr. Chairman, I’m sorry to interrupt. Um, was there a motion made to go into public hearing?”

Chairman Hawkins – “I introduced the, the purpose of the meeting for the quasi-judicial proceeding at the offset.”

Angela Beeker – “Um, I had Mr. Nicholson go pull the rules of procedure and I believe we need a motion to go into public hearing under the rules of procedure and then what I would recommend that we do is have everyone consent to have what’s already occurred be made a part of that public hearing.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, uh, I’ll so make that motion. All those in favor of that motion say aye.”

All Commissioners stated aye.

Chairman Hawkins – “And, uh.”

Angela Beeker – “Is anyone that objects?”

Chairman Hawkins – “Anyone that objects to the proceedings that we’ve done so far, uh, not being part of the record?”

Angela Beeker – “Being part of the public hearing. It’s a procedural. Okay. Apologize for that.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Continue Mr. Smith.”

Luther Smith – “Thank you sir. As Karen indicated, Fox Glen is, is a, uh, approximately a 47 acre piece of property located between Howard Gap Roads and Patty Chapel Road, uh, just south of the town of Fletcher. Uh, the applicant is asking for 198 housing units, uh, which 100 will apartments, 22 town-homes, 40 single-family villa lots and 36 single family cottage lots. Additionally the project will include a community recreation center that will have a pool as well as open space, uh, throughout the property, playground areas and sidewalk connections from all housing areas to Howard Gap Road at the, um, signal entrance of the school and the project. Um, access to the property will be from both Howard Gap Road and Patty’s Chapel Road. Howard Gap Road will serve the apartment, uh, town-home and villa home areas. Access to the cottage areas will be from Patty Chapel Road. There will not be an internal connection all the way through the property so that you could go from Howard Gap Road all the way over to Patty’s Chapel Road. Uh, excuse me, we will be as part of the project planning to do improvements to Howard Gap Road at the existing signaled entrance. Those improvements subject to approval by NCDOT will be a, acceleration and deceleration lane coming into and out of the entrance as well as, uh, center turn lanes at the signaled, coming into, uh, the project. And then exiting the project there will be a right and left turn lane as well as a single lane coming in. Piece of property itself, uh, appears to have been an old farm site many years back. It’s now currently totally wooded. Part of it looks like a 30 to 50 year old forest. It is bisected by two streams that run from south to north through the property, uh, we have found, uh, not only the stream channels but adjacent to the streams some wetland areas. These areas have already been, uh, flagged, surveyed and identified and will be, uh, um, by the Corps of Engineers will be categorized as jurisdictional wetlands. Uh, we have tried to keep all development out of those areas so we do not impact that floodplain or those wetland areas. Uh, what the, the streams do is divide the property into three nice development ridges. You have a ridge that’s immediately adjacent to Howard Gap Road, one down the center of the property and then one to the east side. And so we’ve tried to keep the development into those areas to um, uh, make the best use of that topography and minimize disturbance to the rest of the property. In putting, the, the whole plan together we tried to establish development standards to control the development, utilities for the property, uh, it is planned to have both public water and public sewer. Um, the uh, garbage trash those sorts of things will most probably be private. Uh, emergency water supply, I read the comments by uh, Rocky Hyder, the Fire Marshal, and both uh, access requirements, and I’ll deal with that in more detail a little bit later, but access and emergency water supply problems can be addressed based the comments he made. Uh, the roads, streets, drives within the project, there are three levels, uh, of access within the road system. Uh, first we have a collector road, a main collector road that comes in off of Howard Gap, goes down through the property and stops at the, uh, villa housing, housing area in the center of the property. Uh, this collector road is, is required not only by the Henderson County Subdivision Ordinance when you serve, when a road serves more than 25 units, uh, but it’s also required for fire safety access. Off of that, uh, road, as you come in there will be a private drive and parking lot that serves the apartments. Um, the actual pavement design in there, uh, will meet the uh, local street pavement design within the Henderson County Subdivision Ordinance. To the left as you come in is the town-home area, that will be a private drive owned by, excuse me, owned by the, uh, townhouse, uh, owners. And again the standard for that drive will be the, the uh, private local street standards within the, uh, Subdivision Ordinance. As you get to the villa area and then subsequently the cottage area those roads are, are proposed to be, excuse me, uh, local residential streets, uh, designed, built, constructed, drainage, and uh, line and grade to NCDOT standards for the purpose of dedication, uh, to NCDOT. On the far side coming off of Patty’s Chapel Road we go back, that first little section of streets you see, again falls into that collector category. Uh, so it, a collector street is basically wider, has uh, lower grades than are allowed in the other residential streets. We have at this time already submitted a list of names to street addressing and they have approved the list of names that you see in the packet that you have. Uh, parking throughout the entire development, each, um, single family or multi-family type housing unit except the apartments, uh, will have, uh, two parking spaces per unit. Some of those may be garage spaces and, as well as driveway spaces. The apartment areas, we’re planning for a minimum, excuse me, of one and a half, excuse me, one and a half spaces for each apartment unit. Parking for the commercial, uh, small commercial area as well as the recreation areas, uh, will be based on the square footage of the building, uh, one car in the commercial area for every 200 square feet of structure and in the recreation area one car for every 400 square feet. In addition to the, the housing areas as I just indicated we do have a small commercial area at the entrance. Uh, Mr. Campano can talk about this in more detail but it is generally, uh, at this point we’re looking at a small two story structure. The lower floor will probably be like a management office or could eventually be a homeowners association office. The upper floor may be a small community store. We are not planning to have gas pumps and so forth so that it becomes that sort of a convenience store. Um, also the recreation area, gonna say, will have a, uh, have a, uh, community building, uh, of some sort as well as swimming pool and other facilities as well. Um, in addition to, to the recreation facilities approximately 48 % of the property is what we would term open space. And I know Karen has talked about wrestling with the definition of open space. As I used it here it’s, it’s the term that, uh, or in the same context that’s being used in the County’s PUD Ordinance with Carriage Park and other places as it’s currently defined which is just, if it’s not sold it’s open space. Except for the roads, I did not include the roads in that open space, okay. But uh, so it, it means lands that, and we’ve also used the term I say common properties. Common properties are any properties that the homeowners association controls, maintains, owns. Open space is a portion of those common properties, the recreational facility would be part of the common properties as well. The, that building for example is not necessarily, is not figured in this open space, if that, hopefully makes sense. Uh, maintenance, as I said there will be a master homeowners association for the entire development as well as, sub associations for various areas like the town-home area. Maintenance for all the common property and com, excuse me, common facilities, uh, will be by the property owners association. Uh, maintenance on the apartments, uh, that area will be owned by a private individual, a private owner and they will be responsible for the maintenance on that. Um, within the housing units, uh, the average lot for the villas, and these are a zero lot line type of structure, are approximately 6,100 square foot lot. The uh cottage lots average about 11,000 square feet, eleven to twelve thousand square feet. Uh, the townhouse lot averages about 1,300 square feet which is the footprint of the building. So in the town-home areas they will own the footprint of the, that their building is sitting on. All the property around it will be commonly owned property. Um, let’s see. Of the natural features, the streams in the property, um, as required by the, excuse me, Subdivision Ordinance, we have, uh, indicated on the plan 30 foot protected buffer zone on either side of the stream. The only thing that, uh, we see at this point that will, uh, impact those buffer zones, we have one road crossing as the collector road goes from, from Howard Gap Road to the, to the center ridge. We have a sidewalk or pedestrian crossing over the next stream, and, uh, we may have in that corridor, depending on how the sewer plan works out, obviously some sewer crossings at a couple points. But otherwise that area will remain undisturbed. Uh, we are anticipating that the project will be developed in five phases, uh, each one of the, excuse me, residential development areas will be a phase and then we have separated out the commercial, the recreational and the main access roads as a phase as well. Um, the applicant is asking that, uh, um, you, uh, should you agree to, uh, approving the vested rights that that be for five years and again Mr. Campano I’m sure will have more detail with regards to that. With that I will be happy to answer any detailed questions you may have about the property or anything that we’ve tried to incorporate into the plan.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Let me just ask you, uh, uh, go back, what were the acceleration and de-acceleration lanes you were talking about. Was that on Howard Gap Road?”

Luther Smith – “Howard Gap Road, that’s correct. Because of the light and the traffic and so forth at that intersection we will have a, coming from the south…Park Ridge Hospital will be a de-acceleration lane to turn into the property. Coming, and as you come out of the project they will be an acceleration lane heading toward Fletcher and we are also looking for proposing a center turn lane for, uh, making a left turn into the project as you come from Fletcher.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. And on the, uh, on Patty’s Chapel Road over there will they have acceleration, de-acceleration lanes over there?”

Luther Smith – “Uh, at this point we have not, not really looked at that, but if DOT recommends it, you know it, it will be installed. But we felt simply the volume of traffic coming, coming in and out of Patty, Patty’s Chapel Road did not necessarily warrant those, but we can back up and take um’, we will be taking a harder look at that as we start working with DOT.”

Chairman Hawkins – “You had a question for him?”

Commissioner Moyer – “Luther on the storm water, uh, runoff aspect, I can’t tell exactly what the uh, elevations here. I imagine with the ridges, and with the streams flowing south to north all the water except on the edges, along Patty’s Chapel and, uh, Howard Gap will flow into those streams…”

Luther Smith – “That’s correct, that’s correct.”

Commissioner Moyer – “And there’s no retention or anything on here so.”

Luther Smith – Um, uh, we do not have any re, at th, this stage we haven’t, you know, worked any of that stuff into the plan. What we normally try to do, uh, and as a developer, what Mr. Campano normally tries to do is yes, as we develop our drainage system, we do try and minimize that impact of storm water. In the city of course it’s required, and the projects we’ve done in the County, such as Aberdeen, we did incorporate storm water areas to, to, uh, offset any downstream effect or so forth. But that’s usually something that comes in as part of the, the, the develop, the actually development plans when you submit them to the County.”

Commissioner Moyer – “But it would almost have to be north of the project?”

Luther Smith – “Uh, well, if you did one big thing. What we try and do is break it up into a bunch of small areas so that, you know, let’s say the townhouse area there, as the water comes out of that we try and slow it down and control the discharge before it even gets to the stream.”

Commissioner Moyer – “Yeah.”

Luther Smith – “Rather than try and do one, one massive thing down at the end of the project somewhere.”

Commissioner Moyer – “But does anything flow south out of the project…water flows down.”

Luther Smith – “Um, not really, not really.”

Commissioner Moyer – “Thinking of the, I’m thinking of the Beth Eden Subdivision and that area…”

Luther Smith – “No, are they, are they south?…No, none of the water, none of the water flows toward that direction.”

Chairman Hawkins – “But you haven’t finished your, uh, that’s required by the state, your storm water runoff plan yet anyway have you?”

Luther Smith – “No, we haven’t. Uh, obviously we’ll be required to do, with each section of development an erosion and control plan and deal with the storm water runoff issues. Uh, we’ll have core permits to get in terms of the str, stream crossing. All those permits are, are applied for as you put together the final development plan.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay.”

Commissioner Messer – “Luther, you have the, uh, entry right where the current line is now?”

Luther Smith – “That’s correct. The one on Howard Gap.”

Commissioner Messer – “Right, that, that’s”

Luther Smith – “Yeah it will line up so that will be a, you know, a normal cross intersection at that point.”

Commissioner Messer – “Alright did you say you had a entry coming back toward Fletcher on Howard Gap Road, coming”

Luther Smith – “No, we only have the two entries. The one entry on Howard Gap and the one on Patty’s Chapel. Said we’ll be having an acceleration lane, in other words as cars come out of that entrance they will have a lane to pick up speed you know to get into traffic basically on Howard Gap as they come out.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Board have any other questions? Larry.”

Commissioner Young – “…something about the maintenance. Says the common areas with Fox Glen will be owned and maintained and managed by the master property owners association or subordinate associations, and areas associated with the apartments will be maintained and managed by a private owner.”

Luther Smith – “That’s correct.”

Commissioner Young – “Who determined that private to be? Will that be Glade Holdings or is that gonna be sold to, some individual at a later date or?”

Luther Smith – “Uh, that, that’s a question you’ll have get Mr. Campano. But, I don’t know whether they’re gonna maintain ownership of those apartments or whether they will sell that piece out to someone, but I’m sure he can address that, that question.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions from the Board? Are there any, uh, other questions from any of the additional parties of witnesses just questions? Okay.”

Luther Smith – “Thank you.”

Karen Smith – “Mr. Chairman I, I will have some, I’ll have some things that might, might be easier to go back and forth with when you get to me if that’s acceptable.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, that’ll be fine. Yes mam, would you come up and ask your question.”

Jane Berry – “Wanted to address the, he’s saying that he’s taking additional lane, a lane for turning lanes”

Commissioner Moyer – “Could we get the person identified please?”

Angela Beeker – “State her name please.”

Jane Berry – “Oh I’m sorry, I’m Jane Berry and uh, I’m for, have private land then we have Berry Boys Inc., and we’re the ones that put in Beth Eden. He said that he was gonna have a right and left hand turning lane onto Howard Gap. Um, and that would, the left lane, if he goes in at the stoplight the school would touch my property and I have the understand that’s a farm market road and there’s been some problems there when the school was put in and my concern is, my concern is all those children going to school, all those people coming out at the same time those buses are going in, how are they gonna control all that for the safety of the children?”

Chairman Hawkins – “Well we’ll, we’ll, we’ll get to that. Your question was I think…”

Jane Berry – “I’m concerned about, where is he gonna get the property to add all those turning lanes and those extension lanes he’s talking about on the widening of the road.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay I, I think he’s talking about on the uh, I guess what would be the east side of the, of the turning light which is in the development. Is that correct Luther or could you point that out.”

Jane Berry – “In your development.”

Luther Smith – “..all, all of the land that would be required by DOT for those additional lanes would come from the project site…our side of the road…”

Jane Berry – “Okay, okay from your side of the road. But it would still be on the, okay, still be at the school. Alright.”

Chairman Hawkins – “That answer your question? Yes sir would you come up and take the mic and identify yourself.”

Kenny Long – “Yes, my name is Kenny Long, uh, under the summary on the, the general item 1, it states it’s gonna be 4.2 units per acre, uh, and he’s talking about 48% common ground not counting the roads. So now you’re looking at probably nine or ten units per acre.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Is, is that correct Luther of is your computation of units per acre predicated on how you have it laid out and the amount, or, or averaged over the total.”

Commissioner Moyer – “I think we have to have Luther come to the phone, make sure he’s on the, I mean come to the mic.”

Luther Smith – “Okay, uh, my name’s Luther Smith. The density of the 4.2 units per acre is a gross density for the entire piece of property. So that 198 units, uh, for the 47 acres.”

Chairman Hawkins – “47 or so acres.”

Luther Smith – “Correct.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions?”

Kenny Long – “That’s not very much land.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes sir. If you’d come up and identify yourself.”

Skip Brewer – “My name is Skip Brewer and I’d like to refer you to Attachment 15e, uh, regarding connection to the county sewer, and I heard Mr. Smith indicate that it’s planned to have, uh, sewer utilities and I’m, if you refer to Attachment 15e it’s indicated to be connecting to the elementary school line although it doesn’t, there’s, I don’t see anything here that specifies there is an approved connection of an upgrade cost of how that’s gonna be funded or if it’s even approved. If, if he could, uh, expand on that if possible.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We, we’ll, we’ll get to that. I had the same question.”

Kenny Long – “I got one other question.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes sir.”

Kenny Long – “My name’s Kenny Long again. Uh, on the storm water issue, if he doesn’t have the holding areas for storm water on, for say …, can ya’ll approve this. Uh, is he granted no storm water protection?”

Chairman Hawkins – “He, uh, and correct me Karen if I’m wrong, but the uh, the storm water and erosion control is a requirement of the state. And so as mentioned earlier you still have to meet all the requirements of subdivision, erosion control, building permits, uh, uh, aside from what this Board grants as far as the land use. Uh, the sewer, uh, all the health issues, they, they’re, they’re uh, they’re still required. Is that essentially right?”

Karen Smith – “That’s correct. Um, I’m not sure exactly what specific storm water rules they have to meet at this point, uh, but erosion control, as far as drainage structures and that sort of thing have to be shown on their erosion control plan to the state and that is required, approval of that plan is required before they could start construction even under the subdivision ordinance.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Does that answer your question?”

Kenny Long – “Yeah, but I got one more. Uh, my only other question is, on the pamphlet that we received, did ya’ll get those prior to this meeting where you could go through ‘um and read um’ and stuff. Uh, that’s a lot for us to sit here at this meeting and absorb, and answer, ask you question about.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We uh, we, we’ve had all these for several days and uh”

Kenny Long – “Well I understand that…but you know what I’m saying. It’s a lot for us to read through in a quick amount of time to, uh, to ask questions about.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions for Mr. Smith? I believe we’re on. Yes sir, would you come back up.”

Skip Brewer – “Do I need to restate my name, or”

Chairman Hawkins – “If you would please just so we have it on the tape when we transcribe the record.”

Skip Brewer – “Uh, I’m Skip Brewer and I have a question for, uh, Mr. Smith. Is he aware of any current legislation pending that change uh, storm water rules, runoff rules, or anything to that effect that would effect this plan.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Luther you want to come up and answer that?”

Luther Smith – “Um, Luther Smith. Um, I’ll say yes and not to that. I, from a standpoint that I got one of DENR’s little newsletters the other day and, and saw a note on there about storm water rules or something. I have not read it, but I assume it means that they are in fact either relooking at their, their uh, legislation or something but in terms of, of actual things that, that are on record I am at this point, not a, not aware of any that I know of that would affect it. Or that are immediately pending, but there may be some.”

Angela Beeker – “What, what storm water rules at the state would you have to meet right now?”

Luther Smith – “Uh, the only ones would be if water quality has an interest in these streams. Uh, due to the, whatever the stream classification is, and I have not looked at that, then we would have, uh, storm water requirements through water quality. Uh, from, from the erosion sedimentation control, they do not have storm water management as part of their…and of course the county doesn’t have an active storm water management so water quality really becomes the only agency at this point that, that uh, has something that control that.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions for uh, Mr. Smith? Yes sir.”

Steven Moore – “Steven Moore and uh, I want to go back to the storm water issue. When you were asked whether any of that would flow north, the answer seemed somewhat hesitant so, I’m just wondering if you know that for sure or that’s just your best guess or.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, I, I believe it was south he said, uh.”

Steven Moore – “Or south I mean, yeah.”

Luther Smith – “I was simply trying to orient myself…”

Commissioner Moyer – “Luther.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We need to pick it up on the tape, uh”

Luther Smith – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We’re, uh, so that we can transcribe it.”

Luther Smith – “Luther Smith. With regards to the question I believe the, the Chairman asked me if any water would flow south, uh, to that subdivision, my hesitation was simply reorienting myself on the map which was north and south. But it all flows north toward, all those streams and the water flows north towards Fletcher.”

Steven Moore – “And would that be north towards the preserved agricultural”

Luther Smith – “Well toward this.”

Steven Moore – “zoning section that they had on the map previously.”

Luther Smith – “Uh, wherever that, wherever that stream goes. Both of these appear to be unnamed streams on the map. Uh, you know this stream goes up towards I assume Cane Creek or somewhere as does this one.”

Steven Moore – “Okay.”

Luther Smith – “So, actually this is, I think on the map you’re asking about the R-20 map and then beyond that was that”

Steven Moore – “Yeah, right.”

Luther Smith – “um, agricultural area, whatever it was. I do not know whether these”

Steven Moore – “Conservation area.”

Luther Smith – “you know, I don’t know whether these streams actually go into that area or not.”

Steven Moore – “Okay. And then second, I, I’ve see, I just in reviewing what you have here so far I’ve seen that you know you’ve been in contact with the Department of Transportation about getting approval to link the subdivision roads up to Howard Gap but has there been any type of traffic study done on what, uh, implication that would have on Howard Gap?”

Luther Smith – “Again, Luther Smith. We did contact DOT with regards to traffic counts on Howard Gap. The only traffic counts they had available are down right near the intersection of 25, they didn’t have any of this area. Uh, there are improvements I understand planned, as you get down into what will eventually be the Fletcher Town corridor and there are also improvements planned south of us as you approach Park Ridge Hospital. Uh, the sharp curves that are in there. Uh, but they had, they had no specific data which quite honestly surprised me I thought they might given that the school was put in there a couple years ago. Uh, but they really had no information, nor did they have any information on Patty’s Chapel Road in terms of this specific area of traffic, traffic count.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Does that answer your questions? Thank you. Any, any other questions? Yes mam.”

Valorie Edmonds – “This isn’t necessarily a question. Um, I’m, uh Valorie Edmonds. Um, I did speak to the principal of the school today, and she indicated to me that there’s 300 cars per day, just for the sc, uh, parents dropping students, um, to, picking them up and dropping them off at the school. That does not include teachers or buses or any other visitation that’s coming in and out of the school. She indicated to me that it’s just 150 per shift of cars alone and that the traffic already backs up down Howard Gap, and it does block Beth Eden Subdivision as it stands now. Um, in the mornings and in the afternoons when the traffic is coming to pick the kids up and take um’, drop um’ off.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Do you have any questions for Mr. Smith?”

Valorie Edmonds – “No I don’t.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Smith? Yes sir.”

Ron Raiola – “Um, Ron Raiola. Um, my question is, when the trees come out, and that top soil’s stripped off, it a gone, it’s nothing but soapy clay. How are you going to keep that off of Howard Gap because that, it’s gonna get on the roads, it did in our subdevelopment. Do you have plans for keeping that off of Howard Gap and Patty’s Chapel because it is a safety issue if nothing else.”

Luther Smith – “Uh, Luther Smith. With regards to the question, part of the erosion control plan that is, that is required by the state includes installing mechanisms as vehicles leave the property to, to, uh, knock as much mud as possible off of um’. That’s usually accomplished with a, a, uh, rip rap or large rock mat at the entrance, um, generally anywhere from 50 to 100 feet from the road so that as vehicles cross that they knock off the predominance of the mud. Um, that’s the general procedure that’s used.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Smith? Any other questions for the Board? Okay. Ms. Smith if you’d give your staff’s evidence now. Oh I’m sorry Gus did you have something else to add?”

Gaston Campano – “Yeah I, I did want to talk a little bit and I had a number of things to say but for the sake of brevity I’m not going to try and duplicate a lot of what Luther, uh, was talking about. Uh, my name’s Gaston Campano, by the way I do represent Glade Holding, and, uh, the, a couple of things obviously, this project is modeled a little bit after Aberdeen. Uh, which is a project that we did, uh, not too far from here over in the Mills River area, uh, substituting the townhouse because of the Howard Gap access for one of the other products over there. Uh, it’s gonna have the four product types. The apartments will be luxury, uh, apartments. They’re gonna be fairly high end apartments, little bit higher end actually than what we have at Chadwick. A lot of them are gonna include garages and a number of other really nice features. Uh, though, obviously we, we need to maintain the ability to sell the property at any point, uh, we do tell you that it is clearly our intent to keep these for long term income property, the same as we have Chadwick. We have no intent of selling this property any time in the foreseeable future from the standpoint of the apartment community. Uh, so we will be neighbors with the neighborhood here for a very long time.

And, uh, the, the property is directly across the school, we are sharing the signal with the school. Uh, we feel that’s a huge benefit, uh, it, it is, uh, there’s a lot of plusses to having residential areas right up against the school versus a number of other types of uses that could be there. Uh, and we do feel there is the room to deal with the traffic issues from the standpoint of the lanes. Uh, the areas that are backing up going into the school, we’re not gonna add to that. Uh, if somebody in this neighborhood needs to go to the school the kids are either gonna walk or they’re gonna go straight across, you know on the signal so they’re not gonna actually add to the, uh, turn lane situation for people trying to get into the school in the mornings. And uh, the, the project is named actually Fox Glen specifically because of the school, a lot of people have asked us why Fox Glen do you have foxes in there? Uh, we don’t right now, we hope to have a lot of foxes in there by the time we’re through because these are, the mascot of the school is the fox, and that’s how we got that name. Uh, so hopefully we’re gonna put foxes in the place.

And uh, we did keep the low density off on Patty Chapel, uh, the lowest density product over in the Patty Chapel area and it has its own access. We are keeping a walkway going across so that families with children who want to attend the school, uh, can have their kids walk to the school from that area without having to go around the whole neighborhood or, you know, going across the stream, but there’s no vehicular access in there.

Uh, and Luther mentioned all the natural buffers and the open space and stuff. We did speak with, uh, briefly with the School Superintendent, uh, Tom Burnham. We also spoke with Craig Honeycutt. Uh, we had a meeting with Bo Caldwell which is the Assistant Superintendent in charge of facilities, at that same meeting was our, uh, engineer and also Bill Lapsley, uh, representing the school as he was the one who installed the utilities over there. And what we’re proposing, and the school is very open to do it we just need to know that we can go ahead to try to work out a final agreement with they, uh, is to try to get the school out of the sewer business completely. Uh, right now they own a pump station, they own the force main. Uh, the county has wanted to get the force main from them, uh, and take ownership of it. The school has said no because they want them to take the lift station and so they’re kind of at a standstill, and what we’re proposing is to install one lift station, add a little piece of line which would take from the lift station where the school has it now, we would connect to our lift station, eliminate their lift station completely, leave the lift station maintained by us through the rental and the homeowners association, we would then take care of the sewer for the school in exchange for the school dedicating the force main to the county which, the county has asked for. And, uh, so we would be able to solve a, a one problem at the school, one issue that the school presently has, uh, and, and that’s something that we’re doing at our expense in the project because we do need a lift station anyways, and, uh, it won’t take much more to add that additional line, uh, so the county, we’re not gonna be coming back to you to deal with, you know, any dollars, uh, to deal with the sewer issues. Uh, the, the, the, comments we got from the school obviously, uh, you know they looked at the whole project and overall the, the, the kind of comments we got was more of a, uh, little bit pleased that it’s a residential neighborhood and this open use as has happen in other situations, which I’m sure you’re very familiar with, uh, areas around schools have tried to get either, uh, zoning of products in there that are not quite as compatible with the schools. Uh, we found this to be a real benefit both to the school and the project, you know, to have, uh, hopefully a whole lot of the kids right across the street reducing traffic, not necessarily increasing it. And uh, likewise when we had a meeting with Craig Honeycutt over at Fletcher, uh, he did look at the plan and he thought it was very compatible and actually made some comments about the, uh, uh, the fact, uh, that we do need some more, at least, apartment community somewhere very close to the Fletcher line because Fletcher is growing very strongly very fast, uh, but it’s actually growing with pretty much the same product and we do need to get a little bit of diversity as far as the uses in there. Uh, I will comment that the people we have in the rentals and the type of people which we will have in these qual, in these rentals are quality people. Uh, cause they, they are, uh, of, competitive in the market place, some what affordable but clearly not low end low income in any way. They are market rate, uh, housing.

The, we’re asking for five years on it, uh, we are gonna be doing it in phases, uh, we will be submitting for the subdivision approvals, uh, on the phases. There will be times probably when they’ll all be going on together. Our proformas and our market study actually show that the project should take about four years, uh, we’re requesting the additional year because obviously we’re using some proformas based on market conditions that we don’t know how they change and if they do change and shift a little bit, you know we want that extra time, uh, that one extra year, uh, to do that. Uh, the amenities were mentioned, we do have a club house. We intend to put a fitness center in it. It will have a pool, it will a tot lot, uh, for the kids. Uh, the roads are gonna be dedicated. Uh, the commercial area’s intended to be a neighborhood commercial area. in fact the real intent is to have a little commercial area there for the use of the people, you know, in this community but obviously it will be open, you know, if kids want to come after school to pick up, you know, a candy or whatever it is you get at the little convenience shop, and some of the other neighbors in the area would have access to it as well so it, it will be a public place but it’s really designed, you know, to, to service the needs of this community right in here.

Uh, the, I wanted to discuss briefly the, oh the value of the completed project by the way cause I, … what we intend to do in here, the, the townhouses are gonna range base price from the 120’s to the 130’s. Now, on all of these base prices we sell options and upgrades in addition to it and that has created a pretty good variation. The same townhouses that we start at 120’s and 130’s will often reach 160’s and 70’s with some people who are downscaling have the money and want to upgrade the unit, you know, significantly. Uh, villas from the 130’s to the 170’s in base price. We expect them to hit into the low 200’s. The cottages will start in the 160’s and go into the 200’s. Again, just like Aberdeen we had many units over there that were, got up into the mid 200’s. Uh, the completed value of the entire, uh, community once it is done, uh will be between $23 and $25 million dollars, uh, of, of, what effectively is value of properties within the community.

Uh, wanted to discuss a little bit as I understand the vested rights the impact to the company and why we’re here. And, uh, we’ve been looking for property, uh, to develop to replace effectively Aberdeen. Aberdeen is a project as I think most of you are probably familiar with, uh, that we are, uh, right at the end of. We have, uh, I think it’s five more homes or four more homes to sell. They’re all basically either near finished or finished at this point in time. And, uh, so we’ve been looking for property to continue, you know, the flow in our company and, and continue our business. Uh, we first looked at this property almost a year ago. Uh, and we made some offers on it. Uh, we didn’t get it, but we did do some due diligence at that time. Uh, somebody else was looking to but it, the deal fell through, and we came back and put it back under contract, uh, in the fall of 2003. Uh, in that time period we have pursued, uh, moving forward as if though we could do this including having meetings with a number of people in the county and county staff. We have performed an environmental report. We have performed the surveys. We’ve done the topography. Uh, we’ve done a wetland study. We’ve done the preliminary engineering. Uh, we raised and funded the equity for the project which is sitting in an account. We’ve completed market studies for it. Uh, we do have completed business plans. Uh, we have reviewed the project with the lenders and basically have gotten their initial approval that they are more than happy to move along with the project. We’ve done all the land planning. Uh, we’re using a lot of the architecture we have and uh, in, in hand already. Uh, as well as several other different meetings including those with the county and the school boards and some of the adjoining city officials to make sure they were aware of what was going on.

Uh, the, the, and I don’t know how relative it is but the direct, uh, wanted to, the impact on the company that this has, uh, because I’m not sure anybody always understands the impact on it. Uh, the direct cost that we have paid out of pocket, that we’ve written checks for or have to write checks for at this stage of the game, not including the time and effort it takes us just to look for the property, uh, well exceeds $60,000 at this point in time. Uh, but much more important than that, once we put this property under contract we stopped looking for other properties. And we have not been pursuing other properties because we have our limitations as to how much we can pursue at a time and this, for us, is a good sized project. Uh, we’re relying on this one you know, we have been relying based on what we understood all along to move forward. And we went ahead and did a little study, uh, as to what it would cost the company in lost fees and lost income, um, if in fact this property could not be built at this stage of the game. The little study involves the assumption that we would start looking for new property in February, that we would find a new property in six months and that it would take a similar approval process from the timing standpoint to go through the process. Uh, by the time you get through all of that it would actually represent a delay of just shy of a year to the company and then that’s with the big assumption that we find a good alternative site. Uh, the impact to the company including the cost spent to date, the lost revenues, lost fees and everything else that goes with it would actually exceed $940,000. So it is a very, very big number. And in fact, if that were the case with what we have in hand right now, if we can not proceed with this property it would require us to go back to our company, take a look at it as we now have approximately 40 people at a management level and with the other projects that we have ready to go and what we have finishing up, we would not be able to sustain the personnel that we have within the organization. Uh, so we are relying very heavily on it, we have been all along, and, and it was our under, it is still our understanding to this day that being open use we did have development rights to do this provided we meet all the subdivision ordinances.

Uh, clearly we are, we have always, just a little note, we have always worked very well with all of our neighbors in the other communities. I think you can go to any community that we have developed either in the city or in the county and speak with the neighbors and they will tell you that we respond quickly, uh, and, and, uh, try to take care of any problems they have. I can’t promise there are none…ever any problems, uh, but if the road ever does get dirty they’ll find that we do clean it right away. We get the ma mat, mud mats back in place, and try to address all of the issues of the neighborhood. Uh, we have tried to deal with a lot of the, what we felt would be the concerns. There’s a good number of buffers in a lot of the areas. And, uh, which we think, you know, helps with the impact on it. Uh, the, clearly we are going to need to, uh, uh, a good example is at Aberdeen we did but in storm water retention. I don’t believe it was technically required, uh, yet we did include it in our plans. Uh, the, yeah, as, as, uh as was noted by city staff we, we do intend obviously, or we have to go through the ordinance, uh, subdivision, uh, code you know and all the process still to get the rest of the site plan approvals. And, uh, and, and clearly we’ll meet all the requirements that are necessary in those areas. And uh, uh, I don’t know how necessary it is but I’ve got a lot of the documentation showing this. Environmental reports and, you know our studies, and the market studies and all the other things, you know, if need be. And that’s it.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any uh, any questions from the Board of uh, Mr. Campano? Any question of any of the other parties or witnesses at this time? Yes sir would you come up. Mr. Campano if you’d uh, remain at the podium so we can catch your, catch your name.”

Kenny Long – “My name is Kenny Long. Uh, pertaining to the sewer, uh, the school over there is a county school. The sewer line’s county lines, it’s a county pump. I don’t really understand why we have a, have to have a private individual to uh, do the maintenance and take over a pumping station.”

Chairman Hawkins – “We will, we’ll try to address that when we have our discussion on the sewer line Mr. Long. Uh, the, the county at this point doesn’t own the sewer line, it’s owned actually by the school system.”

Kenny Long – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “And, uh, in that area I think most of the lines eventually are owned by MSD, am I not correct David, or does the county actually own the lines.”

Angela Beeker – “The county.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, so, uh, that, that, uh, but at this point they’re not county lines they’re county school lines.”

Kenny Long – “Okay, well anyway.”

Gaston Campano – “I don’t know if I can add. At this stage though, the force main, that the school is using is not owned by county, the school still owns that…”

Chairman Hawkins – “That’s correct.”

Gaston Campano – “At least as of a few weeks ago when we met with them.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Someone, someone else had a question? Yes mam would you come up.”

Valorie Edmonds – “I’m Valorie Edmunds, um, I have a couple of questions. First of all, how do you plan on protecting the, the, the residents of Beth Eden from this project that you’re planning on developing?”

Chairman Hawkins – “What, what kind of protection are you talking about?”

Valorie Edmonds – “Privacy, and, and our safety and everything else that goes with a, a, a high, a high, uh, density project going in like this.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, Mr. Campano on, on the map, the southern edge there and I, I was gonna ask you, is there uh, uh, some, uh, looks like a setback buffer or what. That looks like it abuts up pretty close to, uh, yeah that area there. Is there anything planned in that area, maybe that’s the question she’s asking.”

Gaston Campano – “Okay, what we’d be happy to put in, uh, you know, whatever it takes in that area including, there is obviously some setbacks and such, but we’ll add a landscaping buffer and, and if they want a tree. I, a, uh, fence, you know, fencing buffer any other things that are necessary in there. Those are the things that we have always been very good as far as getting with our neighbors as we move forward through the subdivision ordinance and finding, you know, the details of their concerns, uh , and trying to address some of those concerns and, and taking care of them.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay.”

Valorie Edmonds – “Um, you also have, say you’re gonna put a fence up. Uh, can you put a, a 25 foot fence up to block my, uh, the view from my back of my, back deck. I have a two story house with my main living, level of living being on the top story.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, obviously.”

Valorie Edmonds – “And so do my neighbors next door.”

Gaston Campano – “Obviously all we can do with that is add some landscaping, let it over time, you know, get in there, but no matter what this gets developed as, whether, you know whatever type of housing goes in there or whatever type of commercial goes in there, or light industrial, as open use can be any of them, that’s an issue that you’re gonna have regardless once the property’s developed. You know, it’s.”

Valorie Edmonds – “And you also said that you were going to put high end apartments in there. $575 is what is stated in the pamphlet that we have as a starting rate. We have a double wide a mile and a half away that rents for $695, and I don’t see how that can be considered high, um, high end apartments.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, if, if, you take a look at some of the other apartments that are over in the, uh, just north in, uh, I’m sorry I’m thinking of the road, uh, near the Biltmore. Uh, Long Shoals Road, uh, they’re in the same price range.”

Valorie Edmonds – “No they’re not.”

Gaston Campano – “Yeah, yeah they’re very similar. Uh, they’re, they’re, the one bedroom unit’s are right at…we have the comps and we compare it to them. Uh, the price range that we will be in, uh, isn’t just a price range. That’s a one bedroom unit. It limits the number of people that are in it, and again it’s very competitive with what we’ve done at Chadwick, uh, and, and we feel it’s a fairly high end apartment and, uh, that the type of people and the quality of the people we get in it, uh, we’re very proud of it. Uh, both the community and the maintenance and, you know the people living there.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Do you have any other questions?”

Valorie Edmonds – “Um, first of all I am a real estate agent also, and I, I know what the property values, what happens to property values with high density next to a subdivision. And um, I feel that this is not going to do us any good with having a, you know a half acre, you know per dwelling on each side. Everybody on each side of this property has at least a half acre or better. And this is the, the, the standard of our area. And this is what is, is common in our area.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Is, is your, is your subdivision zoned? Do you have a zoning down there?”

Valorie Edmonds – “I’m not sure.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I don’t show it on my…”

Valorie Edmonds – “I do not believe it is.”

Chairman Hawkins – “So, okay, do you have any other questions...”

Valorie Edmonds – “…and we are in Henderson County also, and I don’t know if they realize that the Fletcher police do not answer, um, calls to the Henderson County, uh, unless they are called by the Henderson County to go out there and then they put us a list like, if we are, we have had problems in the subdivision already. Uh, while one house was under construction, and by the time a police officer was radioed from Henderson County to go, from Fletcher there, he never showed up for like 30 minutes.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Well.”

Valorie Edmonds – “So, I mean it’s, it’s going to add more problems as far as, you know, police and, if there are problems in the subdivision because of this high density, you know it’s going to be hard to get, um, response time from police officers. Um, it’s gonna put at least 400 more, minimum 400 cars more into that subdivision which will be 400 cars minimum on Howard Gap Road with 198 units. And, and like somebody else said before, um, uh, you’re talking about 48, um, 8% of the, of it being you know common areas, not even being build on, on 46 acres, that’s very high density.”

Angela Beeker – “Ms. Edmonds, you’ll get a chance to say everything you want to say. If you could hold all those kind of comments until it’s your turn, if you’d just limit right now to questions directed to Mr. Campano so that we can get to the part where you have your turn.”

Valorie Edmonds – “Okay, thank you.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes mam. We, we’ll take you next, uh, lady in the back.”

Susan Morgan – “Uh, Susan Morgan. Uh, my question is, I’m not, I’m not understanding how you’re gonna guarantee…”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, just a minute Ms. Morgan, are you a party to the hearings or have you been called as a witness?”

Susan Morgan – “Oh. I can’t talk at all?”

Angela Beeker – “Uh, you can be called as a witness, by someone but you can’t ask questions.”

Susan Morgan – “Okay. Sorry.”

Chairman Hawkins – “The lady in the back.”

Kathy Cheekos – “I’m Kathy Cheekos, I live in Meadow Oaks Subdivision which abut this proposed, uh, um, property development and uh, have lived there 13 years and witnessed both the increased traffic on Howard Gap Road. It is amazing once people hit that straight-away that the speed limit is crazy and then also the increased traffic jams in the morning and afternoon. The question I have is since one of the selling points you have to people who would come into this development, is the fact their kids can walk to school. What studies, or things have you done to ensure the safety of the children because I don’t feel safety in my car in the morning because of the traffic. And uh, obviously it’s gonna to require crosswalks, increased lights, the duration of the lights and so on to ensure, and then the, the encouragement of children to cross over out of that school time when the policeman’s sitting there to make sure we’re abiding by the rules, um, I’m, I fear for the fact of the children not being safe. And have you done any studies to ensure that, Howard Gap will be safe?”

Gaston Campano – “We, we, uh, go ahead and… We, we haven’t done any studies uh, professional studies of any sort to ensure that obviously. The, uh, how, however obviously we do have to modify the signal and deal with, you know the appropriate timing and everything else at that school. And if you get enough kids over there we feel very strongly that the school system will work with us in putting, you know a typical, uh, uh, police or guard or, you know the guys, the volunteers who go out there and, and make sure the kids can cross safely. Uh, but the concept of having something that is walkable to a school is something that we consider to be desirable at all times. And no matter where that is there are always safety issues and you just have to address them with the school, you know, and, and the neighborhood to make sure that, uh, they’re being well taken care of. So.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions?”

Kathy Cheekos – “We need a highway through Fletcher. Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, yes mam.”

Donna Riley – “Uh, I’m Donna Riley and I live on Patty’s Chapel Road and own the property across from this on Howard Gap where my apartments are. And I noticed you said that you would not have, you expected all your children to walk from the Howard Gap side, but from Patty’s Chapel Road you did not address in any way, turning lanes or making those as I understand 40 or 50 villas…I was just handed this information.”

Unidentified – “36.”

Donna Riley – “36, so you’re going to have 36 more villas which could provide possibly 36 more cars. I’m also a parent of children in school and in this day and age there’s no way I would allow my child to walk to school unless there was a policeman at every corner. And I have dealt with Fletcher Elementary School and the principal and most of the parents there feel the same way. They’re not going to have the children walking to school. And you’re gonna have weather when, even your area directly across the street that is just, nobody’s gonna put a five year old to walk to school in pouring down rain, snow, bad weather. It’s not gonna happen. How are you going to address those issues.”

Gaston Campano – “I’ll address first Patty Chapel, uh, the road. It’s, it’s 36 units. Uh, that is unlikely, uh, based on a typical traffic to study to require any kind of a turn lane though if DOT would request it we would work with them in doing so. Uh, but it’s unlikely it’s gonna require anything.”

Donna Riley – “I’m talking about coming in as you get up to the school, not on Patty’s Chapel but for the Howard Gap, Fletcher View Road is what I’m talking about.”

Gaston Campano – “Yeah, yeah, I, I understand, yeah, okay, well we’re gonna, like I said…so you’re looking back at Howard Gap again...”

Donna Riley – “Well, okay but coming from the 36 houses coming around…”

Gaston Campano – “Again, the traffic generated by 36 homes is, is generally minimal and usually does not have a very big impact.”

Donna Riley – “But it’s already over”

Gaston Campano – “Okay, the uh”

Donna Riley – “So you’re going to add 36 homes more to an already crowded situation.”

Gaston Campano – “The uh, as far as the walkability of it, obviously everybody isn’t gonna let their, you know have their kids walk. Uh, however there’s only one real crossing other than the internal, you know smaller roads here. It all will have sidewalks going across, and the only street crossing is the one directly across, you know, the one directly in front of the school, uh, and we would think that you’re gonna get some people, just as happens in a lot of the other schools closer in where you do have safe places to walk, uh, the do walk. Uh, my children go to Henderson Elementary and I’m telling you people walk form all over in that area because there’re safe areas to walk on. Uh, this we think will have safe areas to walk on. Uh, obviously the five year old is a different story but certainly as you get up into the, uh, slightly older children, or parents walking their kids to school which we would do. Uh, the, I think you will get that. But that again, is just.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. Someone else have a question. Um, yes sir.”

Bruce Thompson – “Yeah, my name is, uh, Bruce Thompson and if I’ve understood correct, you’re putting in 100 apartments with 1.5 parking spaces for the apartments. Well this is the 21^st century, everybody has two cars, that’s gonna create a problem there. And also on the uh, apartments you said they’re gonna be high end, uh, the various jobs I’ve had throughout my lifetime I’m seen apartments rent for $1,500 a month and been trashed. And so, who can you guarantee that no riff raff is gonna, uh, be into that. And that’s it.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, regarding the parking a minimum is 1.5. Uh, that parking is based on what is required, uh, in the subdivision ordinance and I believe the subdivision ordinance but I know it’s one of the requirements. Uh, it also, uh, you know we’ll try to get a little more in there but it’s also been shown to be about right based on the product mix that we have. Uh, you’re right a lot of people have two cars, but not everybody does. Uh, there are some one bedroom apartments in here where you will have one car, and in this market place you get a lot of retirees who will be living together even in a two bedroom and only share one car. Uh, usually the families are the ones who have the two cars. Uh, and we do get a pretty strong mix of retirees and singles, uh, in there.

As far as how to guarantee they don’t trash the units, obviously that is just a matter of us, uh, and whoever is there properly manage it, managing it but obviously you can take a look at a lot of apartments in a lot of different areas and find that, you know, well kept well run apartments that are properly built, uh, can maintain property values quite high and, and be a real asset to the community. Uh, and they are a needed type of housing, and, uh, that’s the reality of it. Uh, uh, all, all communities need some decent, uh, apartments in there for the right mix of housing.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions for Mr. Campano? Yes sir.”

Skip Brewer – “Skip Brewer. Uh, I got a couple questions for Mr. Campano. Um, number one I’ve heard, I’ve heard them referring, in, in his address to the Board, uh, talking about uh, with Craig Honeycutt of the Town of Fletcher. And, seeing as how this subject property is not in the Town of Fletcher what standing would, does his opinion have regarding, uh, your petition or your development.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, actually none. We did meet with him predominantly as a courtesy because it is reasonably close to the Town of Fletcher and, uh, wanted to make sure he was aware of what’s going on and didn’t just hear it down the grapevine.”

Skip Brewer – “Um, Skip Brewer, um, Mr. Honeycutt didn’t mention, um, uh, annexing any part of this area in question did he?”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, we did not get into any detail of any annexation or anything else. We really just kind of showed him what it was all about.”

Skip Brewer – “Um, Skip Brewer, um, we, the Board was also, um, had consideration of a letter from Mr. Tom Burnham, uh, regarding, uh, apparently his concerns. In the letter he did have some traffic concerns although, uh, forgive me, your name? Uh, Karen mentioned that Mr. Burnham did say that he didn’t have any, um, concerns regarding, uh, the development or petition, and my question to Mr. Campano is, has anyone from the Glade Land Fund, Glade Holdings etal, that has to do with this petition, and or pro, proposed subdivision speak with Shirley McGee, the principal of this school? Uh, excuse me, the Fletcher Elementary School.”

Gaston Campano – “No we didn’t. We felt it appropriate to uh, let uh, the Board know about it and uh, the superintendent.”

Skip Brewer – “Okay. Uh, Skip Brewer, uh, my final question at this point uh, for Mr. Campano is you’d indicated earlier that this property had been uh, uh, on the market or had been approached by other individuals um, about development and you said, indicated that a deal had fell through and um, I’d, I’d be curious to know, um, who you spoke with and which company, um, that the deal fell through and the what the details were of why it fell through.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I, I don’t know if that’s a relevant point.”

Gaston Campano – “I was gonna say I, I, at this stage of the game I’d rather not disclose any of that. I’m not sure I have, uh, the authorization from the parties involved with this to, to disclose that.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Mrs. Beeker?”

Angela Beeker – “Do you wish to tell how that’s relevant?”

Skip Brewer – “Um, I, I do, it does have relevance um, from my eyes because I, I do have, in, in my line of work which is high end residential construction, um, I have occasion to run across developers and talk to different people in that sort of business and it’s my understanding that, that property was, uh, under contract at some point by a competitor of Glade’s, uh, in the type of housing market that he is, he is, Mr. Campano’s addressing. And the reason that they abandoned, the deal didn’t fall through per se, other than for this, my understanding from this company is that they abandoned the project due to the cost of the wetlands there and also the sewer issue. They just couldn’t make it feasible money wise to make it work, and so that, that’s why I feel like it’s relevant.”

Angela Beeker – “You wanna rephrase your question to deal with the wetlands and sewer?”

Skip Brewer – “Sure, I’ll do that. Um, so my question then would be, um, having, having talked with another developer, if they abandon a project, uh, based on the sewer issues that we’ve talked about here which still haven’t been ironed out and are still very much in the air, um, and the wetlands issue to be able to address that, um, which I think you have in your land plan, um obviously it takes into account the wetlands, um, is this the reason why this is such high density. Um, that’s the first part of my question, to make the money flow obviously the density has to be there to make the cash flow. Uh, but the other thing is, uh, the other question is, the people who were going to, were going to put this other subdivision in were looking at a product similar to Windsor Forest on Airport Road which is a, a $200,000 to $225,000 uh, range in home product. If they couldn’t make it work how are you gonna make it work with some $200,000 plus uh, housing units there. And that’s my final question, unless he has any questions.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, I have never spoken directly, in any way, with the other people who had this under contract. So I can’t tell you why they decided not to do it. Uh, and, and I’d rather not speculate as to why they decided not to do it. Uh, the first time we looked at it, uh, we looked at it for pretty much the same product we have now, and when we look at property and look to buy property what we take into consideration is what we thinks works well, what we think works well on the site. What we think, uh, works well in, in that particular community under the circumstances, and what the regulations allow us to do. And uh, and work with that particular line and nothing has changed from that. And obviously the reason we’re here and the reason we’re moving forward is because we find it to be a very feasible project.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you Mr. Campano. Is there any other questions?”

Kenny Long – “I got one. Uh, my name is Kenny Long. Uh, I would like to know, uh, how long this project has been started on. How long have you been working on this?”

Gaston Campano – “The first time we looked at this property was early last year. Uh, we started some due diligence at that point as we were making offers on the property. Uh, our, it accelerated when we put it under contract, uh, which was I believe in the early fall. I don’t have the exact date with me but it was about early fall. And, uh, since then you know all the work that I had mentioned has been performed.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Thank you. Any other questions?”

Kenny Long – “Just, uh, a $60,000 investment to a $900,000 loss in that short amount of time I just don’t really see where that, sounds a little over inflated or something.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, this lady right over here and then we’ll get the, get back to you sir.”

Donna Riley – “Yeah, I’m Donna Riley. Uh, I know you addressed that you talked with Mr. Honeycutt in Fletcher and that was just a courtesy and that annexation was not discussed. Uh, does your convenience store want, or plan to sell beer?”

Gaston Campano – “No, and I would have, there’s no intent to do that and I would have absolutely no objection to putting in some kind of a, you know, statement in there somewhere that, not only will it not sell beer it will not be able to sell beer whether we own it or not. I, I would myself object to selling beer in front of a school.”

Donna Riley – “Okay, because you mentioned, you mentioned the children walking to buy candy and I don’t know that the principal or the county would be happy with beer or tobacco that close...”

Chairman Hawkins – “This is a dry county.”

Donna Riley – “Well I’m not particularly as a parent either but uh.”

Gaston Campano – “…that’s uh. But there, there is no intent to sell beer or tobacco or anything else. In fact it’s almost more of a neighborhood shop, uh, for people who live in the community, in the apartments if they need to buy milk or whatever it is, is really the intent. Uh, and, and again I don’t know if there’s some simple way to put that in there but obviously we have no problem saying that.”

Angela Beeker – “So you’re saying you would put that in some sort of restrictive covenant?”

Gaston Campano – “I have no problem with putting something in a restrictive covenant that we can not sell beer there.”

Donna Riley – “What about tobacco?”

Gaston Campano – “I have no problem with that either. I’ll be glad to leave out the tobacco.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yes sir.”

Ron Raiola – “Um, Ron Raiola. I have perhaps two rhetorical questions and then one question about the apartments. First of all, uh, is this, this isn’t your first rodeo is that correct? I mean you do this professionally?”

Gaston Campano – “Yes.”

Ron Raiola – “Okay. So we’ve established that. Then why would you think it’s relevant to us, or to the Board, that you invested $60,000? I, I mean that’s a risk of doing business. It shouldn’t, to me I don’t see why it should have an effect on their decision.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Well, we, we didn’t say it did. That was just the…that was made.”

Ron Raiola – “I understand. I, I’m asking, that’s, but I’m asking him why he thinks it should.”

Gaston Campano – “Want me to answer? Alright. My understanding of one of the issues under vested rights, uh, is the fact that we have proceeded and invested, uh, and committed sufficiently, uh, that, to, uh, to create any kind of a change at this point in side would ha, at this point in time would have a significant impact on the company. And, uh, and, and this particular one would have a very significant impact on the company. Uh, so I stated those items more just to kind of express the relevance, you know, to the impact that it would create. My understanding of vested, you know, part of the vested rights application is that that is part of it. Uh, that’s why it was brought up.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions?”

Ron Raiola – “Uh, Ron Raiola again. Uh, as far as the apartments are concerned, uh, is there any mechanisms that you can put in place to prevent say, in a three bedroom apartment six or eight people living there with six or eight vehicles. And, and to, to let me finish that, add another part to that, why can’t we bump up the price of these a little bit and call them, make them condominiums.”

Gaston Campano – “Alright, we, we, obviously we have to take a look at our business and we felt in this particular case that the apartments uh, will work there and, and fits well within the neighborhood as a necessary use and fits within our business plan. Uh, as far as the number of people that would live in each apartment, uh, any good professional management company, uh, is gonna maintain that at a good standard. And generally speaking with that number of units you’re not gonna get, you know, a small shop person who’s gonna buy it up and you know, just kinda run ‘um on the side. Uh, as far as how many people can live in each one, uh, I welcome anybody to go to Chadwick and walk in and tell them you want to rent a two bedroom apartment with five people and see what our leasing manager is gonna tell you. Uh, we have our regulations, we have restrictions. Two people allowed in the one bedroom, four people, and they must be related as family, uh, members in a two bedroom, uh, and it goes on like that. So you can’t even have four people, you know, rooming in a two bedroom unit, uh, with the regulations we have to maintain the quality and the value in the apartments that we place.”

Ron Raiola – “So you do have mechanisms in place.”

Gaston Campano – “Yes, we do, we do have those mechanisms”

Ron Raiola – “Okay, thank you.”

Gaston Campano – “and they exist now within our communities that we own. And that would be no different here. In fact they’d be just as stringent if not more so.”

Ron Raiola – “Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions for Mr. Campano?”

Angela Beeker – “Mr. Chairman I have a couple. Um, you said, what specifically has been surveyed?”

Gaston Campano – “I’m sorry could you repeat the.”

Angela Beeker – “What, what specifically ha, has been, you said you’d done some surveys, what on the map has been surveyed.”

Gaston Campano – “We have done a perimeter survey, and a topographic survey. The whole site has had a topo.”

Angela Beeker – “Okay and then you said you had some market studies and things like that. Did you want to offer those into evidence? Everybody.”

Gaston Campano – “I’d be glad to offer you the whole package into evidence which includes which includes, I don’t know what you.”

Angela Beeker – “It, it’s your choice. I’m asking you if you wish to do that.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, I, I can leave it yes. Uh, here’s a copy of the survey.”

Chairman Hawkins – “You can just give it to the Clerk.”

Angela Beeker – “…give it to Mrs., sorry give it to Mrs. Corn. And then any of the other parties would be welcome to come look at it.”

Gaston Campano – “..submit a copy of the, uh, it’s the Phase I environmental site assessment. Uh, we’ll, submit a copy of the, uh, this is the same survey, it probably is. Have you got the, uh, market study? Erica?”

Unknown – “Yep.”

Gaston Campano – “Okay there’s,…these are blacked out, right? I did create one, uh, which is copy of the business plan, uh, the market studies are in there. Uh, the part that affects the numbers directly we did go ahead and black out the numbers because that’s our confidential business plan. Uh, but there’s actually two separate ones because we separate the rental community from the for sale projects because one is a long term holding for us, the other, you know, turns around quickly. So I will submit those, uh, market studies. And, uh, I’ve got a number of other forms but they’ve got a lot of confidential numbers so I’ll leave those out for the moment because they do show, you know, the, the, internal business plan of the company.”

Angela Beeker – “Sure. Okay.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Do you have any other questions Mrs. Beeker?”

Angela Beeker – “No sir, I don’t.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. One final question you had?”

Vicki Edmonds – “My last question was, I’m Vicki Edmonds, um, my last question was, uh, you said you could not, that this was a property you’d found that you had trouble finding property to do this on. Um, did you not consider the 72 acres up Fletcher View and off of Old Hendersonville Road which would give you two accesses, um, and would not be right on top of the school. And it’s already, has a plan laid out through something similar to this?”

Gaston Campano – “Um, I, I’m not sure of the property you’re talking about, so.”

Vicki Edmonds – “It’s the first street right past the school, Fletcher View Drive, there’s 72 acres and it also comes out on the al, other road, Old Hendersonville Road which is, goes out and hits 25.”

Gaston Campano – “That’s the big hill.”

Vicki Edmonds – “Yes.”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, yes, we have looked at the big hill. And we’ve actually walked it a few times and studied it and actually has a great number of challenges, uh, including some access challenges which could be just as significant, uh, but has some real topographical challenges that would not us, not let us really do the same product lines we’re looking at here. So yes we did look at those in quite a bit of detail.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions? Yes mam.”

Jane Berry – “Jane Berry. You’ve addressed the creeks and everything, and there’s a major gas line that crosses that property, uh, and that means that there’s to be a, you have to have, a, right-of-way on each side of that gas line, and you’re not supposed to build that close to it. Have ya’ll, you haven’t addressed that. So, I know that that’s a, that that can be real dangerous when you build houses real close, on top of a gas line. If it blows up the house goes with it.”

Gaston Campano – “We, I, I assure you we will not build a house on the gas line. There is,”

Jane Berry – “I’ve seen some developments do that.”

Gaston Campano – “yeah, no, there is an easement through there and we have addressed the easement. In fact showing you right here, it right through here.”

Jane Berry – “Okay.”

Gaston Campano – “Okay, that already has a, uh, I believe it’s 30 feet if I remember right. Luther?”

Indistinguishable voices

Gaston Campano – “So it’s a very large easement. The line’s in the middle of it and so everything is already set back”

Jane Berry – “Okay, off that gas line. Okay.”

Gaston Campano – “you know a good way’s from it so it’s all been considered in the design and there’s nothing being built on the easement other that roads and road crossing but no improvements of any kind.”

Jane Berry – “Okay, alright. Thank you.”

Gaston Campano – “That, that same gas line by the way goes through several other communities including Wolf Pen and, you know a number of others and it, it is considered in the design.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions? Okay Karen then I ask for your, uh, evidence at this time. Do you have another question?”

Gaston Campano – “…a comment. I, I suppose as evidence we can also submit everything that has been submitted to the County, that’s already in there, uh, including the site plans and, you know, all of that work.”

Chairman Hawkins – “I think so, that’s in our packet already.”

Angela Beeker – “Yes, and then after everyone else has submitted their evidence you will get an opportunity for any rebuttal evidence at that time.”

Gaston Campano – “Okay.”

Karen Smith – “I think the only thing that hasn’t been submitted is the colored rendering.”

Chairman Hawkins – “This one.”

Karen Smith – “If he wants to submit that.”

Angela Beeker – “Do you want to submit that into evidence?”

Gaston Campano – “Yes…”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Bill you had a question?”

Commissioner Moyer – “Are you planning to go till we’re finished? I have a problem at 7:00. I’m gonna have to call, and, uh, my son’s birthday.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay at 8:00 or 7:00.”

Commissioner Moyer – “7:00.”

Commissioner Young – “Already, it’s close…”

Commissioner Moyer – “Okay I’m going to have to break to call, and make. I, this looks like its gonna go on for.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah, uh.”

Commissioner Young – “It wouldn’t hurt to take a ten or fifteen minute break.”

Chairman Hawkins – “You wanna just take a break or you need to actually leave.”

Commissioner Moyer – “…If you wanna continue I’m, I’m just gonna have to call and tell him I can’t get there. I need to do, either call him or do, do something. I’d be happy to continue it, you know, if people wanted time to study this stuff maybe that would be the.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. So, you, you’re alright with continuing it, uh, to a later date certain.”

Commissioner Messer – “Well I think it would because.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Because we’ve got, uh, if we’ve got a good bit of information over here that we’ve got to look at too.”

Commissioner Moyer – “It’s gonna be helpful to me if you can do it.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay. Um, the, uh, I think what the Board is probably gonna do at this point is, um, is continue our hearing to a, to a later date to, uh, a couple things. Give us an opportunity to look at the evidence that we’ve been presented. Give you an opportunity to look at the packets you got. Uh, and uh, I think the only thing we’ll need to do is to set a date certain to, to continue. And I didn’t bring my calendar so, uh, um, let, let us take about a five minute recess and uh, and go look at some dates and we’ll come back and see if we can find a date that we can, that we can make a date to continue to. So we, we’ll take about a five minute recess so the Board can go look at their calendars and find out a date and then we’ll come back and tell you what it is and see if, uh, everyone can, can make that.”

The Board took a five minute recess.

Chairman Hawkins – “We’re going to continue our hearing until, uh, January the 26^th. That’s a Monday evening at 7:00 in the evening, uh, back in this room. Uh, and uh, I think that’s all we need to do.”

Commissioner Moyer – “…form of a motion…”

Chairman Hawkins – “Do we need that as a motion?”

Angela Beeker – “Yes sir, um, the, um, applicant wanted to clarify one thing before you did that about this last piece of evidence.”

Gaston Campano – “This, this plan that we submitted, uh, is a color rendering for rendering purposes only. It is not the official development plan, that’s the one that was submitted in you package.”

Chairman Hawkins – “On this?”

Gaston Campano – “Uh, yeah. Though the basic layout is the same there’s little notes throughout that are a little bit different, uh, between the two plans. The official, the ones the one in you packet.”

Angela Beeker – “Just make a motion.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Okay, so Karen do you have something?”

Karen Smith – “I just, I just wanted to announce the, the materials that, um, were given to Mrs. Corn as evidence that everybody doesn’t have, um, if we could make that available for public review.”

Chairman Hawkins – “If you would.”

Karen Smith – “Uh, either at her office or Planning Department. Oh she’s gotta maintain it, that’s right she has to keep it so.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Uh, what, uh, what Mrs. Smith is saying is the evidence that Mr. Campano has submitted for us to look at is also available for you to look at. And, uh, the county staff will that available to you, uh, at the Clerk’s office which is just down the hall here in a day or so, so we can get it run off, if you want to look that over. Uh, the Board will take a time to look that over as well as the uh, uh, other information that’s been presented and then we’ll resume, uh, at 7:00 on the 26^th, uh, probably with the staff’s evidence. So I’d make a motion then that we recess until the 26^th at 7:00. All those in favor of that motion say aye.”

All Commissioners stated aye.

Chairman Hawkins - “Okay. Thank you.”

Attest:

Elizabeth W. Corn, Clerk to the Board Grady Hawkins, Chairman